Guide: Why is my Ryzen 5 5600X an Idle Volcano?
Have you seen high temperatures on your Ryzen 5 5600X processors at idle and wondered what the reason is? Today we will explain some of the reasons why a user can observe high temperatures when there is "no load" on their operating system, in the first guide of the new XanxoGaming website (post-hack).
I also want to clarify that this guide does not only apply to your AMD Ryzen 5 5600X processors, but also any Ryzen 5000 series processors (especially top of the range) as well as Intel processors.
The motivation behind this article stems from a Facebook post by xanxogaming in which, we put why a particular PC (using Ryzen 5 5600X) is having high temperatures at rest. Here we explain the problem of that particular PC that could be the cause of MULTIPLE USERS.
Before we start, we will put a summary of the structure of this guide.
one). Not all AMD Ryzen processors are born equal.
two). Why do I see lower temperatures on multi-core load than light loads (single core)?
3). When the end user “messes up”. How does one activate light load all the time without realizing it?
4). Fixing the problem.
5). Final Fallacy: The more cores I have, the better I should be.
Consider reviewing the following before continuing:
-That your PC does not have airflow problems (that your case is an "oven").
-Your liquid cooling is working fine.
-You have not manually overclocked the processor.
-Have removed the sticker from the protective water/air block.
-No problem at the hardware/BIOS/source level.
-This guide does not guarantee that it will solve 100% of all cases. We are not responsible if your particular problem is not fixed. This guide more than anything, is didactic. In the event that they have problems, it is always recommended to take your PC to a qualified technical service.
Introduction – The Ryzen 5 5600X PC Problem
The end user reported that his PC turned off and he couldn't play, so the first thing one does when doing non-face-to-face technical service is to access the PC remotely, to do the first checks.
Doing a remote check is far from optimal, but checking the computer and using telemetry software (HWInfo64) the first thing I notice is high temperatures averaging 90 degrees. Immediately the initial conclusion was that something was wrong with the AIO (Galahad 240) but I am advancing that this was not the problem.
High temperatures would explain why the PC was shutting down and malfunctioning, but the first thing to rule out if an AIO is failing is to make sure that, for some reason, bubbles from the closed-loop cooling aren't trapped in the cooling block. copper/aluminum.
All closed-loop liquid cooling can have bubbles and when you move a PC or over time (or both) they get trapped in the water block.
So I asked the user to turn his PC upside down, so that, by the law of gravity, the bubbles go to the top of the radiator. Unfortunately, the user did not see temperature changes.
Remote vs face-to-face review
The natural conclusion when not seeing temperature changes, was the initial conclusion that the problem was liquid cooling, so the user was asked to bring his PC to check it and pass the product under warranty.
When turning on the PC to check temperatures, the first thing I hear is a “water flow” sound, which PC enthusiasts are probably familiar with. That indicates that any bubbles that had been trapped in the water block began to circulate.
So the first thing I do when I boot up the PC is go to BIOS and to my surprise it went from 45 degrees down to 28 degrees Celsius.
In conclusion, liquid cooling problem, ruled out.
But, surprisingly, at the time of entering the operating system, the idle temperatures ranged from 45-75 degrees Celsius, with an average of 55 degrees Celsius. Obviously, it is no longer at the alarming temperature of 80-100 degrees, but 50-75 degrees at idle in the operating system, IS NOT NORMAL.
Spoiler: Fixed the problem, the same PC at rest, works from 31 degrees to 60 degrees Celsius at rest.
Important fact, currently the ambient temperature is around 24 degrees Celsius.
With all this put, we start with technical data that you may not have known about AMD Ryzen processors (especially 5000 series).
Not all AMD Ryzen processors are "born" equal.
This section will be focused especially on the 5000 series, although I have also seen 3000 series processors (Ryzen 5 3600) with "temperature problems". Having tested several AMD Ryzen processors, I can say that each one is different.
Some time Robert Hallock (AMD representative) came out to clarify that a processor below 95 degrees, still works normally and within the range of what is allowed and for AMD this is "normal".
These statements were born from several users complaining about high temperatures reported by various end users.
Here the citation:
“Yes, I want to make it clear that AMD considers temperatures up to 90C (5800X/5900X/5950X) and 95C (5600X) to be typical and designed for full load conditions. Having a higher maximum temperature supported by the silicon and firmware allows the CPU to pursue higher and longer boost performance before the algorithm retires for thermal reasons."
Is it the same as Zen 2 or our competitor? No. But that doesn't mean something is 'wrong'. These parts work exactly as designed, producing the performance results we intend.”
Robert Hallock – AMD Technology Marketing Director
What does this mean?
We could separate this into two categories:
-AMD Ryzen processors with low temperatures.
-AMD Ryzen processors with high temperatures (compared to the others).
I will give a practical example.
Out of a batch of three Ryzen 9 5950X units, two of them ran substantially higher temperatures than the third processor. An additional 10-15 degrees. Beware, this does not only happen with the Ryzen 9 5950X, but also with any AMD Ryzen 5000 series processor.
Why are the processors different?
There are two reasons why there can be quite a difference between one processor and another:
-Some processors require more voltage than others.
-Differences between IHS welding and bending between different processors.
Silicon lottery with some requiring a bit more voltage than other processors, but more importantly, I presume the IHS solder/curvature difference has a lot to do with temperatures and this becomes more apparent on single core loads, which we're going to see. then.
Why do I see lower temperatures on multi-core load than light loads (single core)?
We can also see it the other way… Why is it possible to observe a higher temperature most of the time in single-core load compared to multi-core high load?
The answer is simple. In single core, the voltage is quite high, reaching in some cases up to 1.5v in one core, which generates an immediate sudden jump in temperature and the processor sensor captures this temperature.
Meanwhile, in a synthetic test in which all processor cores, like Cinebench R23, the voltage is much lower, 1.1v. The processor frequency is also lower, especially on CPUs like the AMD Ryzen 9 5950X.
So don't be surprised to see higher temperatures in games where single core use predominates and in synthetic tests like Cinebench R23 observe that temperatures are lower.
When the end user “messes up”. How does one activate light load all the time without realizing it?
And we return to the mystery of what happened on this PC. No one guessed the real reason because it could have idle temperatures of 50-70 degrees Celsius on a Ryzen 5 5600X processor having 240mm closed-loop liquid cooling.
The first two parts of the guide are important in understanding the reason for above normal temperatures at idle.
The PC was just being used all the time with constant mono core load, due to user handling.
A computer in certain ways is like the human body. It depends on how you feed it (how the operating system is) will define how it will behave.
Those who have experience with PC, will immediately notice very bad with the image. The little icons in the notification bar are quite a lot. There we can see several applications running at the same time and constantly working.
This can cause a lot of performance loss, like stressing a few cores to your processor. In this case, the user's Ryzen 5 5600X was not hit by the silicon lottery and is hot in itself.
On top of that, having multiple processes triggering single core usage ends up with a result that despite the PC being idle, temperatures hover around 50-75 degrees Celsius (plus longer OS time).
To corroborate this, we can observe the following image.
As you can see in the images above, even though you are doing absolutely NOTHING with your PC, in the first image, having the EPIC Games Launcher open by default and with no additional configuration, you are updating a game. Meanwhile, in the second image, a Windows service is running with high usage, probably because various programs are asking the operating system for information.
In short, having processes that could avoid being used can cause the PC to be working all the time on a single core and, as explained, in Ryzen processors, this can lead to temperatures well above what is desired at rest.
Beware, having the operating system running in an "inappropriate" way not only affects AMD processors, but also Intel, but Ryzen, having the probability of high volatile temperatures in some processors, results in high idle temperatures.
If one has detected that this is the problem, the most sensible solution is:
-Clean installation of Windows.
-Maintain a “good regimen” at the operating system level.
As I mentioned at the beginning, this solution only applies to those who have these same symptoms (please read the disclaimer).
Fresh installation of the operating system probably does a better job than deleting it program by program, so we recommend backing up your personal stuff on your PC. Hence, keep the installation to a minimum and have programs like Discord, Epic Games Launcher, Steam, etc, with manual start, instead of automatic.
As you can see in the image post clean installation and proper configuration of Windows 10, the use of 5-20% of CPU dropped to 0-3% at idle and there was a reduction of 20 degrees Celsius. Same PC, same hardware. Be careful, this processor will not stop being hot in itself, but at least it is working within a MUCH MORE ACCEPTABLE range.
In operating system issues, less is better, but I take this opportunity to talk about a final fallacy.
Final Fallacy: The more cores I have, the better I should be
There are users who think that by buying more cores and threads, they can overload the operating system with whatever they want. This is totally false and as we mentioned before, it is harmful.
Even though you have more cores and threads, if there are many single core processes running at the same time, they will be fighting for resources with other programs all the time and using processor cache.
Also having more cores and threads, like in a Ryzen 9 5950X, it does not mean that they will be cooler in the case of running many single core threads.
If you have an unfortunate processor that is already quite hot, the sensor picks up the hottest spot on the processor and you could still have higher than normal temperatures at idle, or under single core load, as the single core voltage on AMD Ryzen processors he is quite loud/aggressive.